EIAC / German Indoor Aerobatics Championship 2012

J.Heilig

J.Heilig

First European Indoor Aerobatics Championship (EIAC), combined with 12. German Indoor Aerobatics Championship.

10.– 11. November 2012 in 73257 Köngen, near Stuttgart.

The current FAI F3P-AP sequence will be used for the F3P-Expert class and the best 12 pilots will qualify for the EIAC, where they will fly another four rounds (2 x F3P-AF, 2 x F3P-Unknown).

The new F3P-Sport sequence was designed to make the transition from Sport to Expert a bit easier. ;)

Complete description and registration form as download available here:

Slowflyer » Downloads

So far, 20 pilots (from GER, SUI, CZE and LTU) have already registered.

:) Jürgen
 
You should know, I'm going to keep bringing it up, The AM should not be linked to the precision flights.
It's a different class with a different set of skills, where different pilots excel.

Just yesterday i spoke with a pilot who i did not know before, he brought it up an feels the same way.


That being said, the competition is always a lot of fun, with high level pilot's, flying AND judging. I'm going to register right now.
 
nando zei:
You should know, I'm going to keep bringing it up, The AM should not be linked to the precision flights.
It's a different class with a different set of skills, where different pilots excel.
...
Klik om te vergroten...

That's your opinion and I respect that. No problem. ;)

The past 10 years however have shown, that it is the same pilots dominating both categories. Therefore, in order to limit the max. number of participants for F3P-AM, the precision classes are used for qualification. This appears to be a lot fairer than "first come, first served" or a "lottery system".

Looking forward to seeing you in Köngen.

:) Jürgen
 
Laatst bewerkt:
nando zei:
I don't agree with this, there are load of examples where this is not the case. ...
Klik om te vergroten...

What examples?

AeroMusicals Winners at the German Indoor Aerobatic Championships:

2003 - Alexander Kammerer - also won F3P-Expert
2004 - Martin Müller - also won F3AI-A
2005 - Martin Müller - 2. Place F3AI-A
2006 - Martin Müller - also won F3P-A
2007 - Gernot Bruckmann - also won F3P-A
2008 - Derk v.d. Vecht - 2. Place F3P-A
2009 - Martin Müller - 5. Place F3P-Expert (with Extra 300!)
2010 - Gernot Bruckmann - 2. Place F3P-Expert
2011 - Gernot Bruckmann - 2. Place F3P-Expert

Except for 2009, when Martin has not been practising pattern and used his AM-model, the winner of the AeroMusicals competition always came first or second in precision. No matter what your opinion may be, those are hard facts. ;)

:) Jürgen
 
Jürgen's results maybe biased...

Are the posted results results of just the German Indoor Aerobatic Championships?
Then they're the result of the system being used, to prove it woks....

Is there no data available of the suggestion Nando might have?
His idea might be harder to prove...
You could check Aeromusical pilot's competition scores in previous (aeromusical) competitions to decide to let them fly, even if they don't fly 'precision'...

Not to say that I understand Jürgen's system of 'limiting the max'

Adding a few 'wild cards' of people who don't do well in 'precision', but have excelled in aeromusical elsewhere...?

But then again I'm no f3P fly-er, more an f3p follower.
 
crins zei:
Jürgen's results maybe biased...

Are the posted results results of just the German Indoor Aerobatic Championships?
Then they're the result of the system being used, to prove it woks....
...
Klik om te vergroten...

Biased? I don't think so. ;)

Who made it to the podium at the World Air Games 2009 (F6B only):

1. Fabien Turpaud (FRA)
2. Martin Müller (GER)
3. Donatas Pauzuolis (LTU)

They all do very well in precision too. ;)

At the IITOP you don't need to qualify for F3P-AM:

IITOP 2010 - Fabien Turpaud - also Winner F3P-A
IITOP 2011 - Donatas Pauzuolis - 2. Place F3P-A
IITOP 2012 - Donatas Pauzuolis - 5. Place F3P-A

:) Jürgen
 
I'm not talking about the top5 AM pilot's, those are going to qualify in A, no problem.
I am there to compete in AM, I'm going t travel hundreds of kilometers, perhaps take a day off work, not even knowing i'm going to be able to compete.

Every time i entered a AM competition i came in top10, so i would thing the level of flying is there. (cant find the DM score, this could be lower, it was a competition where everything went wrong for me, and in preparation i focused purely on A.)

In 2010 i was secound to last in A (over 30 pilots) link and 9th in AM. link
I've always scored lower in A than in AM.

Right now i'm reasonably confident i'll make top 15 A (unless my battery gets lose in flight again...), but some guys comming up might not be.
 
nando zei:
I'm not talking about the top5 AM pilot's, those are going to qualify in A, no problem.
I am there to compete in AM, I'm going t travel hundreds of kilometers, perhaps take a day off work, not even knowing i'm going to be able to compete.
...
Klik om te vergroten...



I was talking about the top pilots (and you too, because you challenged my statement, that it is the same pilots dominating both classes: [post4] ;)), because the top three will end up on the podium and that's usually the goal of a competition: to find the best competitors. Quoting former McLaren F1 boss Ron Dennis: "Second is the first of the losers.", might be a bit harsh, but it is the winners, who are remembered - so everybody likes to become a winner one day.

It is the same with semi finals and finals. While every competitor will have the same amount of flights to qualify for the semi-finals, those who qualify will face more flights, while for the others the competition is over.

:) Jürgen
 
Laatst bewerkt door een moderator:
Jurgen,

This discussion took place 1 year ago, in an identical matter (between the same 2 participants) as I recall.

You have to agree Nando has a good point. AM and A have lots in common, but there is a reason they are different. And there may be people good at one, and not the other, allthough mastering the common part.

If you are able to see that point, and are unable to change the rules, tell Nando, and the discussion is over. But please confirm that he has a point.

Regards,

Volhout

P.S. Why not change to rules to only classify the pilots for A if they are amongst the first 10 in AM .... I hope you see the point ....
 
I'm not sure about Jurgen, but i was done with this discussion for now.

I know he has a good reason for limiting the number of AM pilots, if you take iitop as an example, there are to many AM's for the judges. It becomes a really hard and tiring job.

Jurgen has been really good the past years to let everybody compete if the numbers allow it.


Reversing AM and A makes no sense, it'll be like flying Af as a preliminary for Ap.
AM is Obviously the highest form of indoor flying!
 
Volhout zei:
...
You have to agree Nando has a good point. AM and A have lots in common, but there is a reason they are different. And there may be people good at one, and not the other, allthough mastering the common part.
...
P.S. Why not change to rules to only classify the pilots for A if they are amongst the first 10 in AM .... I hope you see the point ....
Klik om te vergroten...

Show me a top pilot, who is excellent at AeroMusicals, but sucks in Pattern. So far, only the very best pilots came up with really brilliant AeroMusicals. ;)

It is much more difficult to judge the piloting skills of a competitor in F3P-AM, as some maneuvers may have been "lucky escapes" rather than controlled maneuvers. Only during the second round, a judge can really evaluate wether it was a random or controlled maneuver.

:) Jürgen
 
Update ...

So far, we have 20 registrations for F3P-Expert and 7 registrations for F3P-Sport -
17 would like to compete in F3P-AM.

:) Jürgen
 
Hi Nando,

I completely understand your point of view, but I 'm afraid that it might be too late to change the rules.

So why not training just that little bit more for the expert class, just to be sure that you qualify for pattern (of course, you will never be sure, but at least your chances will increase).

I'm convinced that this would also make even better your AM performance.

Don't understand me wrong... your AM performance is - in my eyes - superb. (If I ever get half as good as you, I will be a happy man) But in that way you can bend 'a disadvantage' to an advantage.

Anyway I wish you a lot of success!
 
In my opinion you can compare AM with medley swimming...
It is not because you are the best in breaststroke that you are the best in medley.
 
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