janhein
PH-SAM
We hebben weer eens ruzie in raketten land. En het probleem is dat wanneer er dit soort dingen gebeuren het zeker in geval van certificeringen het de hobby flink kan schaden.
Deze verontrustende mail kreeg ik van mijn Italiaanse collega Stephano. En als het klopt wat er in de mail staat dan zullen alle HPR vliegers goed op moeten letten wanneer er verzoeken komen voor het leveren van motoren. Certificeringen zijn het brevet van van de rocketeer en die dingen zijn er niet voor niks.
Jurg (de zwitserse prefect) heeft het zelfde probleem gehad met NAR zwitserland.
"
Hi Jan-Hein,
I am copying here a message I am sending to European Prefects and vendors about some problems arising from the newborn NAR Italy. I really ask you to help with this because it's not only a local problem but also a potential real danger for the whole Europan rocketry scene. Similar situation are arising in Germany and Switzerland so it is important to be united to protect rocketry and our business in turn. Selling some motors more it's not worth the problems we may have in future (from stronger regulation to a total ban of rocketry in some countries or in the whole Europe). Here is my
message:
----------------------------
We have good reasons to believe NAR Italy will create some problems. For those of you who does not know, NAR Italy has been created by a small group of people as a "protest" against Tripoli Italy, and against myself as the only vendor in Italy. Same thing happened to Juerg some time ago.
NAR Italy is a fake group, with no equipment, no field and no structure.
They have a BOD of about 6 people and only one member (!). They had no activity so far.
The following information comes from messages they write on a public mailing list. This mailing list is not restricted to NAR Italy members but is read by 150 users who have this list only as their information source:
- They are trying to import motors because they do not want to buy from me.
It is illegal to do it without a company behind and some trade licences.
- They expressed intention to purposely break NAR rules and give HPR certification to anyone without regards to any regulation. This has been affirmed by a member of their BOD, the Secretary, who claims himself "a fiery anarchist" without any criticism from the other members.
- Their first certifying person is a guy who didn't touch any rocket since 4 years, let alone high power rockets. He has a very poor experience, having made a single HPR launch, the one of his certification. As you may know, NAR certification systems allows any certified person to certify another one, assisted by only one witness (without certification). This guy was designed to start this "chain", then every certified flyer can certify a number of other people in a potentially infinite progression. You can imagine the quality level of these "certifications".
- Some of them expressed their intention to sign the certifications without really witnessing it. They do it as "favour to a friend", even by telephone!
They plan to arrange for fake witnessing also.
- Their "senior NAR advisor" is an italian who lives in the USA. He is spreading false informations about the certification process, for example telling that an HPR motor can be purchased freely before certification.
If these guys will succed in doing this things, they will jeopardize all the job we made so far. This year we are closely talking with the Authorities to obtain better agreements and more possibilities. One of our arguments is our integrity and seriousness about the rules, and our attention to the safety issues. If for any reason one of these guys will do some mess, all the care put so far will vanish.
I cannot post any message on that list because when we founded Tripoli Italy they banned me. I can only read what they say by means of another guy who act as a relay, so I have no way to correct the false information.
It is my intention to express these concerns to NAR President, Mark Bundick.
Beside keeping you informed, I ask those of you who sells motors to refrain from helping these guys in any way. I know that you cannot ship motors, but please do your best anyway to unsupport this group and to explain them the real rules.
As SierrafoxHobbies, I will not recognize any certification released by NAR Italy because I do not have any warranty on the quality of such certifications, therefore I will not sell any HPR motor to these guys.
Please spread this new as much as you can, you will greatly help ourselves in Italy and, as a side effect, the whole rocketry scene in Europe.
Thank you
Stefano Figini
Deze verontrustende mail kreeg ik van mijn Italiaanse collega Stephano. En als het klopt wat er in de mail staat dan zullen alle HPR vliegers goed op moeten letten wanneer er verzoeken komen voor het leveren van motoren. Certificeringen zijn het brevet van van de rocketeer en die dingen zijn er niet voor niks.
Jurg (de zwitserse prefect) heeft het zelfde probleem gehad met NAR zwitserland.
"
Hi Jan-Hein,
I am copying here a message I am sending to European Prefects and vendors about some problems arising from the newborn NAR Italy. I really ask you to help with this because it's not only a local problem but also a potential real danger for the whole Europan rocketry scene. Similar situation are arising in Germany and Switzerland so it is important to be united to protect rocketry and our business in turn. Selling some motors more it's not worth the problems we may have in future (from stronger regulation to a total ban of rocketry in some countries or in the whole Europe). Here is my
message:
----------------------------
We have good reasons to believe NAR Italy will create some problems. For those of you who does not know, NAR Italy has been created by a small group of people as a "protest" against Tripoli Italy, and against myself as the only vendor in Italy. Same thing happened to Juerg some time ago.
NAR Italy is a fake group, with no equipment, no field and no structure.
They have a BOD of about 6 people and only one member (!). They had no activity so far.
The following information comes from messages they write on a public mailing list. This mailing list is not restricted to NAR Italy members but is read by 150 users who have this list only as their information source:
- They are trying to import motors because they do not want to buy from me.
It is illegal to do it without a company behind and some trade licences.
- They expressed intention to purposely break NAR rules and give HPR certification to anyone without regards to any regulation. This has been affirmed by a member of their BOD, the Secretary, who claims himself "a fiery anarchist" without any criticism from the other members.
- Their first certifying person is a guy who didn't touch any rocket since 4 years, let alone high power rockets. He has a very poor experience, having made a single HPR launch, the one of his certification. As you may know, NAR certification systems allows any certified person to certify another one, assisted by only one witness (without certification). This guy was designed to start this "chain", then every certified flyer can certify a number of other people in a potentially infinite progression. You can imagine the quality level of these "certifications".
- Some of them expressed their intention to sign the certifications without really witnessing it. They do it as "favour to a friend", even by telephone!
They plan to arrange for fake witnessing also.
- Their "senior NAR advisor" is an italian who lives in the USA. He is spreading false informations about the certification process, for example telling that an HPR motor can be purchased freely before certification.
If these guys will succed in doing this things, they will jeopardize all the job we made so far. This year we are closely talking with the Authorities to obtain better agreements and more possibilities. One of our arguments is our integrity and seriousness about the rules, and our attention to the safety issues. If for any reason one of these guys will do some mess, all the care put so far will vanish.
I cannot post any message on that list because when we founded Tripoli Italy they banned me. I can only read what they say by means of another guy who act as a relay, so I have no way to correct the false information.
It is my intention to express these concerns to NAR President, Mark Bundick.
Beside keeping you informed, I ask those of you who sells motors to refrain from helping these guys in any way. I know that you cannot ship motors, but please do your best anyway to unsupport this group and to explain them the real rules.
As SierrafoxHobbies, I will not recognize any certification released by NAR Italy because I do not have any warranty on the quality of such certifications, therefore I will not sell any HPR motor to these guys.
Please spread this new as much as you can, you will greatly help ourselves in Italy and, as a side effect, the whole rocketry scene in Europe.
Thank you
Stefano Figini