Bouwverslag Fokker V.23 - Nr. 1 (1918) - Schaal 1:3
- Topicstarter bipeflyer
- Startdatum
This project was started November 2017. It is now May 2022. Myself and probably a few others are interested in buying a kit but Ramses will not release it until you are done
Can you offer a thought as to when you will finish this build, please?
Joshua, I have my own priorities (life, work) and had my challenges (like a major injury to my hand which made building impossible for at least over half a year or more). I also don't want to be rushed, or pushed, in building hobby projects in my free time. There's three reasons this build takes long, other than my former comment:
- the kit is still a prototype, so not everything fits and I have to alter things and figure things out while I go
- I build to a very high standard, I like to take my time
- I had 3 projects inbetween, of which the last one is almost ready
Also, the way you approached me and Ramses via DM didn't really come across as pleasant to me. I think we certainly would make exceptions, and if you were living nearby could arrange something, but given the circumstances, in all honesty, I would advise you to look for a different kit or scale subject or bust something out yourself.
jan brilman
Forum veteraan
Geen woord Spaans bij!
(Vast) heel goed.
Die Joshua ziet er wel vriendelijk uit, maar dat valt dus een beetje tegen.
jan.
(Vast) heel goed.
Die Joshua ziet er wel vriendelijk uit, maar dat valt dus een beetje tegen.
jan.
Well said Robert, couldn't agree more!
So Joshua, please be patient or look for an alternative build."
Robert
I have been a modeller for 55 years and know very well how at times priorities change and a model project is put aside for awhile. I have no issue with you taking your time and doing whatever you want to do. That's your and everyone's right.
Ramses
With all due respect, I think that when a designer announces that he has a new design that he plans to kit - he creates expectations among enthusiasts of that subject.
It is very common among designers to pick a "Beta" builder to build and proof a prototype. If I was the designer, I would expect the builder to produce results within a reasonable time frame to pursue kit manufacturing. I do not know if you had such expectations from Robert or not.
In any case, it appears that at least several people are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to buy a kit - myself included. I offered to build a model to proof the design and am willing to pay a handsome sum for one.
In my humble opinion building this model to a flyable status should take no more than 5 months. I understand that this is your design and you can obviously do whatever you want with it, I just fail to understand why you decline to have a second "Beta" builder and disappoint and frustrate fellow modelers by putting them off indeterminantly.
The vast majority of modelers that I know are much kinder towards each other than you.
I am going to build my own version (unless you change your mind and agree to sell me a kit or at least the plans).
Vriendelijke groeten
Joshua
So Joshua, please be patient or look for an alternative build."
Robert
I have been a modeller for 55 years and know very well how at times priorities change and a model project is put aside for awhile. I have no issue with you taking your time and doing whatever you want to do. That's your and everyone's right.
Ramses
With all due respect, I think that when a designer announces that he has a new design that he plans to kit - he creates expectations among enthusiasts of that subject.
It is very common among designers to pick a "Beta" builder to build and proof a prototype. If I was the designer, I would expect the builder to produce results within a reasonable time frame to pursue kit manufacturing. I do not know if you had such expectations from Robert or not.
In any case, it appears that at least several people are eagerly awaiting the opportunity to buy a kit - myself included. I offered to build a model to proof the design and am willing to pay a handsome sum for one.
In my humble opinion building this model to a flyable status should take no more than 5 months. I understand that this is your design and you can obviously do whatever you want with it, I just fail to understand why you decline to have a second "Beta" builder and disappoint and frustrate fellow modelers by putting them off indeterminantly.
The vast majority of modelers that I know are much kinder towards each other than you.
I am going to build my own version (unless you change your mind and agree to sell me a kit or at least the plans).
Vriendelijke groeten
Joshua
Robert
"Also, the way you approached me and Ramses via DM didn't really come across as pleasant to me."
I think that when I approached you and Ramses, something went horribly wrong in the translation. I am much friendlier, kinder, and quite well respected among my fellow modelers on RCScalebuilders website - you can verify this with a few members of this website who are also members of RCScalebuilders.
"I think we certainly would make exceptions, and if you were living nearby could arrange something, but given the circumstances, in all honesty, I would advise you to look for a different kit or scale subject or bust something out yourself."
In the USA we have a say: "Where there's a will - there is a way". I really see no reason for both you and Ramses to make this into an ego war. After all, we are all modelers and share the same passion.
Best Regards
Joshua
"Also, the way you approached me and Ramses via DM didn't really come across as pleasant to me."
I think that when I approached you and Ramses, something went horribly wrong in the translation. I am much friendlier, kinder, and quite well respected among my fellow modelers on RCScalebuilders website - you can verify this with a few members of this website who are also members of RCScalebuilders.
"I think we certainly would make exceptions, and if you were living nearby could arrange something, but given the circumstances, in all honesty, I would advise you to look for a different kit or scale subject or bust something out yourself."
In the USA we have a say: "Where there's a will - there is a way". I really see no reason for both you and Ramses to make this into an ego war. After all, we are all modelers and share the same passion.
Best Regards
Joshua
Henri Kaper
verslagschrijvers
Jongens, ik zou er verder niet op ingaan. Laat maar!
Ik denk dat Joshua het design-werk van Ramses als een bedrijf ziet, terwijl het voor Ramses een vrijblijvende hobby is. Verschil van perceptie.
Ik denk dat Joshua het design-werk van Ramses als een bedrijf ziet, terwijl het voor Ramses een vrijblijvende hobby is. Verschil van perceptie.
Hi Joshua, although Dutch, I am rather proficient in English so there’s nothing lost in translation. On multiple occasions you came across harsh. Like calling it hugely unfair for us to do this. You spammed on multiple channels, website, email. You constantly talk like you have a right and we owe you something. Now, you also do make a lot of assumptions. Ramses isn’t commercially active. He is just sharing his passion and shares what he does on his blog and a forum, so others can learn. I approached him if I could build this design. I am not a beta builder or commissioned commercially, Ramses just doesn’t like to sell his designs if he is unsure of how everything fits and turns out, so he awaits this build. And sure, where there’s a will, that’s not only a US saying, but the thing is… given how all this evolved, I am lacking the will.
.
Joshua,
I've told you this before, but I'll do it again in response to your post above.
I do indeed design model aircraft, not commercially, but as a hobby!
The designs I've made are either for myself or for a club project, again non-commercial.
I am posting reports of the build of these projects and for the Sea Fury and the Fokker V.23 many questions came up if I would like to release it as a kit.
After some hesitation I decided to offer these two designs to a kit cutter and it will be his design then, not my company.
Unlike some other designers, for me it's not about making money quickly....
For me it`s about quality and a proven design, both in terms of construction and flying!
So I will only sell my design when a prototype has succesfully been build and flown.
I don't care how long it takes Rob, he has a build standard I was looking for for the Fokker.
Of course I'm flattered that you (and your friends) would like to build my design!
But I have to ask you to respect my approach to things.
Exactly, we are model builders, not commercial companies where you can lay down your requirements...
So despite the fact that I have explained it all clearly to you several times(!), you just cannot muster the patience and have the idea that you are entitled to something and thus I disappoint and frustrate fellow modelers by putting them off indeterminantly....
Well actually, in the years that I have been active in this hobby and on this forum I have always selflessly helped others with pleasure and all my might!
I like to learn, share and help, not to frustrate or putting off...
You don`t know me at all so please don`t get personal...
Do not call me names because you just don`t get what you want.
Since you being such harsh to us, I am totally lacking the will.
Ramses
.
Joshua,
I've told you this before, but I'll do it again in response to your post above.
I do indeed design model aircraft, not commercially, but as a hobby!
The designs I've made are either for myself or for a club project, again non-commercial.
I am posting reports of the build of these projects and for the Sea Fury and the Fokker V.23 many questions came up if I would like to release it as a kit.
After some hesitation I decided to offer these two designs to a kit cutter and it will be his design then, not my company.
Unlike some other designers, for me it's not about making money quickly....
For me it`s about quality and a proven design, both in terms of construction and flying!
So I will only sell my design when a prototype has succesfully been build and flown.
I don't care how long it takes Rob, he has a build standard I was looking for for the Fokker.
Of course I'm flattered that you (and your friends) would like to build my design!
But I have to ask you to respect my approach to things.
Exactly, we are model builders, not commercial companies where you can lay down your requirements...
So despite the fact that I have explained it all clearly to you several times(!), you just cannot muster the patience and have the idea that you are entitled to something and thus I disappoint and frustrate fellow modelers by putting them off indeterminantly....
Well actually, in the years that I have been active in this hobby and on this forum I have always selflessly helped others with pleasure and all my might!
I like to learn, share and help, not to frustrate or putting off...
You don`t know me at all so please don`t get personal...
Do not call me names because you just don`t get what you want.
Since you being such harsh to us, I am totally lacking the will.
Ramses
.
Laatst bewerkt:
jan brilman
Forum veteraan
Enough said. This has obviously turned into an ego war.
I will build my own V.23 and if there is any interest I will post pictures when it is done.
I will build my own V.23 and if there is any interest I will post pictures when it is done.
This has nothing to do with an ego war Joshua. You approached us unfriendly and keeped spamming, via mail, DM, website, behance etc. We gave you the feedback that we didn't like your approach and didn't like to be called names out of nowhere. Explaining the situation over and over. Now, you again accuse us too by calling it an ego war. Apparently, you really do not get the point and are not open to any substantive reply and continue to "classify" what is going on and what we do or what our motives are.
Please, feel free to build your own. I wish you good luck and hope it turns out great. It would be great if you could share your own work, but please do so in your own thread.
Please, feel free to build your own. I wish you good luck and hope it turns out great. It would be great if you could share your own work, but please do so in your own thread.
Robert
Obviously, we do not perceive modelers camaraderie the same way. I will say this in an attempt to clarify my opinion and promise that this will be my last word:
When Ramses said that he intends to offer kits but will not sell plans - that's commercial whether he was going to do it himself or given the full rights to a hobby kit manufacturer. That statement created expectations. To avoid all of this he could just say that he designed this model and that you were building the prototype.
I am out of here!
Obviously, we do not perceive modelers camaraderie the same way. I will say this in an attempt to clarify my opinion and promise that this will be my last word:
When Ramses said that he intends to offer kits but will not sell plans - that's commercial whether he was going to do it himself or given the full rights to a hobby kit manufacturer. That statement created expectations. To avoid all of this he could just say that he designed this model and that you were building the prototype.
I am out of here!
Of course, turn it around and fire back at me. If calling people out and being rude is defined as camaraderie by you, than we sure do perceive it differently.
In regards to the expectations created: I do 100% agree. But after things turned out differently than we intended, things changed and it seems to be very tough for you to accept this. Also given the endless battering.
In regards to the expectations created: I do 100% agree. But after things turned out differently than we intended, things changed and it seems to be very tough for you to accept this. Also given the endless battering.
jan brilman
Forum veteraan
Gentlemen!
I would say: Let's agree to disagree.
And leave it at that.
(Or something like that.)
jan.
I would say: Let's agree to disagree.
And leave it at that.
(Or something like that.)
jan.
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